Post by @fullywoolly@mastodon.social
the slopbots have defeated me 😡 😭
i feel disconsolate & shellshocked, but here it is... this is me now giving up the fight... resistance really was useless
i loathe the scourge of gen-ai/LLMs, for the four dot-points i have repeatedly posted over recent months:
- largest theft of private IP in human history
- massive water + energy demands as climate crisis intensifies
- authoritative bullshit generation via unsolvable hallucinations
- whole-internet continuous DDoS attacks by web-scraping AI-feeding bots
and so i have felt increasingly bereft as one by one important pillars of gnu/linux have fallen, indeed, eagerly given themselves over to slopbottery
i've loved linux since my belated discovery of it in dec 2013, but so aghast have i been at the ingress of slopbottery that in recent months i began contemplating possible escape routes, including:
already by now from actual VM usage &/or research i'd eliminated the first three, am badly struggling with the fourth in VMs, with the others still ahead
tbh i was not enjoying it... i am now too old, fat, lazy, & stupid to cope with the extreme level of new learning needed, & i suspected that even if i managed it, my new UX would be full of unpleasant compromises & omissions i simply do not have in linux. yet, i deplore slopbottery, & so tried to make myself continue
until now
coz now, i have closely examined https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/ai-free-foss-alternatives
and so i despair
even if i were able to come to terms with one of the BSDs, & get a viable desktop going [coz that is mandatory; i am a GUI user, not a server admin], then what? my desktop [though i delight in fiddling with its bells & whistles] is extant simply for me to run my preferred GUI apps... that's the whole point
but that link, those lists of systems & apps... it is brutal, & it has crushed me. almost all my preferred apps, across a range of genres, appear in that list, as being at the very least slop-permissive, or worse. in several of the cases even my second-preference alternatives are ditto
so, what's the point? what possible fucken benefit would i get in continuing this quixotic quest? i would [at best] end up in a new OS & desktop with multiple compromises & omissions, a huge learning curve having been needed [that i am not capable of anymore], running apps [if they even exist in the chosen BSD] that are slop-tolerant or already slopped. it took me many years to curate my present wide suite of apps, predicated on fitting me well re functionality, practicality, aesthetics... & along the way i tried & rejected very many.
so... i would endure a large amount of pain, to emerge on the other side... still slopbotted anyway
per that list, the fucken slopbots & their acolytes have won. i am so very pissed off. it's over now
fuck it 😡 😭
#DropbearPooterising #Linux #LinuxWomen #FOSS
#FuckGenerativeAI #FuckSlopbots #AntiAI #NoAI #NoSlopJockeys #EscapeFromLinux
the slopbots have defeated me 😡 😭
@MsDropbear42 I just want to say that I think you should take that list with a grain of salt. They’re extremely negative in how they interpret everything, and I think it leads to making things look worse than they really are.
What I mean is that there are a few projects listed as ‘permissive’ or ‘condones AI’ or something like that, when what the project has actually said is more like ‘we can’t stop you using LLMs privately but don’t use it for any code or messages’.
They’re basically spreading doom and gloom IMO. I’d check individual projects specifically rather than taking the list at face value.
Edit: just in case LLM apologists are favouring this in the misunderstanding that this is a defence of their position: fuck off. Extending the benefit of the doubt to projects that are not using LLMs is not the same as saying it’s okay to use LLMs.
@benjamineskola @MsDropbear42 It goes well beyond computer software. Every product you buy will be touched to some degree or another by AI. Its impossible to identify and boycott everything. You cant stop breathing polluted air. Stop breathing isnt an option...so breathing isnt "giving up".
@rspfau don’t get me wrong: I absolutely think it makes sense to avoid LLM-contaminated software as much as is practical (doesn’t have to be an absolute thing, precisely because sometimes there’s no option).
But that list in particular is not a reliable source on the matter IMO.
@benjamineskola wrt your
that list in particular is not a reliable source on the matter IMO
you are far more optimistic than i [not hard, most peeps are, as i am the emptiest of half-empty glasses, ha], but here is my simple "logic" fwiw:
unless a project explicitly forbids slop, imo it is only a matter of time before it is actually slopped
it was in that severe mindset that i made my review of that list, earlier today
in other words, maybe it might after all be possible to derive a shortlist of apps that atm are unslopped... but is the effort of so-doing, worth bothering with, if next month they become slopped?
you see, i am just fatalistic about this scourge now, & despairing of the ethical failure of swathes of semi-evolved ape-descendents on this rock
i can, & still will, maintain & practice my own strict "code of behaviour" for myself, eg, i will never ever d/l / install / use any outright slopbot myself [ie, all the claudes etc can just fuck right off]... but it's my inability to stop others incorporating slop into their apps & services that i need to use, which is the devastating realpolitik i recognised this morn
#DropbearPooterising #Linux #LinuxWomen #FOSS
#FuckGenerativeAI #FuckSlopbots #AntiAI #NoAI #NoSlopJockeys #EscapeFromLinux
@MsDropbear42 Well, you’re right, I’m an optimist. I always think pessimism just doesn’t help a bad situation. But I’m absolutely in favour of avoiding slop; I’m not trying to pretend things are better than they are, either.
My distrust of the list is simply because their descriptions of projects’ policies don’t seem to match reality.
I was looking over one project, and there were a couple of slop PRs, and the maintainer was clearly very annoyed about them, it was obvious. And shortly after that the maintainer introduced a ‘no LLM’ policy. A good sign, right? Yet because the policy banned LLM-generated code and communications, but said ‘we can’t stop you using LLMs in other ways’, it was listed as ‘condoning’ or ‘encouraging’ LLM usage.
It feels fairly safe to me to assume that this project isn’t about to adopt slop; but it’s on the list anyway. So I don’t feel like I can trust their judgment without inspecting everything they list myself.
@benjamineskola that ofc makes sense [not the optimism bit, i mean, golly who could be that weird? 😜 🤭
]. who knows, maybe another day i might get my oomph back, but for today at least i still feel the wind has entirely gone from my sails in this rotten matter.
@benjamineskola let me give a brief example, with stuff i use & like...
- linux kernel: slopped
- kde plasma desktop: status atm unclear, but a dirty big scare several weeks back
- libreoffice: they deny it, but fedi seems to believe they've lowered the barriers, or worse
- keepassxc: claim no slop in the code, but allow slop in dev cycle afaict
- thunderbird: within last 24 hrs their leader was in fedi declaring that their devs are free to use whatever tools they wish... no limits
- gnucash: that site says they're permissive, but i need to check myself
- clementine: ditto
etc. it just feels like eternal whack-a-mole, with the frequency constantly increased
#DropbearPooterising #Linux #LinuxWomen #FOSS
#FuckGenerativeAI #FuckSlopbots #AntiAI #NoAI #NoSlopJockeys #EscapeFromLinux
@fullywoolly ta, yes, i installed it t'other day, but have not had time yet to edit some file/s to make it work with the Firefox KeePassXC AddOn @benjamineskola
@MsDropbear42 @benjamineskola https://mastodon.social/@fullywoolly/117510984854659029 I did some digging previously with libre office
I used https://slopscan.ava.pet/ to help search their repository
@fullywoolly@mastodon.social @MsDropbear42@infosec.space @benjamineskola@hachyderm.io
sigh concerning lo, this is a bit tragic. Maybe and hopefully those two just "slopped" in by accident. 🤷♀️
Anyway, maybe take each step pragmatic and at a time, droppie, but don't despair.
What's the most pressing case and/or the one easiest to replace without too much of a compromise for you here? (I replaced thunderbird with sylpheed/claws mail a while ago, and Ghost- with OpenBSD on my old laptop)
I'd also take things I read on fedi with a grain of salt and especially not sure about that list. Yes, NetBSD said explicitely no and for some this is like the ✨🏆✨Holy Grail* although imo, it is not meant to be the drop-in Linux replacement. and people will run into obstacles with thinking it is. Don't get me wrong, NetBSD is really a great project but not"yet another Linux".
Concerning OpenBSD I have seen it is sometimes also called slop too, because the way they don't like slop is not being dismissive enough for some. FreeBSD hasn't said anything officially yet, yet, so people assume things.
Apart of that, you both are right. The list of options seems to get shorter and shorter. And lo would really hurt.
Again, don't despair.
whistles almost silently the melody of Sir Robin's tune from Monty Pythons Holy Grail ;-)
@tionisla @MsDropbear42 @benjamineskola and there was much rejoicing?
I think the political peasants are the most apt comparison from that movie for our ongoing development.
@fullywoolly@mastodon.social @MsDropbear42@infosec.space @benjamineskola@hachyderm.io
yes, maybe... although they don't really do anything against their situation but going on debating about it.
Not sure... zood as the ai bros? luring the innocent with false advertising?
and yes, whistling always helps me not to despair completely 🙈
oh, thanks a lot for the hint to chipass!