Post by @alexadeswift@lgbtqia.space
So here’s the thing. My entire life is on Proton: email, calendar, documents, VPN, all my passwords, all my ID, all my important data.
My annual subscription is up at the end of January.
If they don’t oust Andy Yen by then, I’m out. The question is where?
Infomaniak seems to offer most of what Proton does but they also use AI.
What other options are there? I’m seeing people suggesting email alternatives. But I need a whole lot more than that.
Currently I use:
Tuta and Murena for email
NextCloud for cloud and calendar
Privamatic and Tor VPN for hardening and VPN
NextCloud for Passwords
As an FYI Murena actually uses NextCloud, which enable you to have all your documents, passwords, email, photos, calendar in one place and accessible via NextCloud apps and with a free tier available as well.
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@alexadeswift @clacksee @protonprivacy Tuta has gone full AI slop.
I am aware that they are looking into the feasibility of using LLM for code development, but as of now all code is written by humans.
I am awaiting am answer from them for confirmation on their plans. If they go full sloptastic crap like Proton and others, I will ditch them.
@alexadeswift The sad thing is that if @Tutanota is out of the game we have nothing left.
@iscarlosmolero @alexadeswift No worries, Tuta is not out of the game, and we are engaging here to better understand what's required of us. Thanks for sharing your concerns!
There will be something left:
Snail Mail and Dumb Phones. I already have one of the latter at home. It can make voice calls. It can receive voice calls. It can ring a bell when somebody calls me and that is IT.
But I will never again engage with AI as it has left me feeling physically sick and badly depressed. I hope I do not have to increase medication to overcome this.
It is not possible to enshittify the unenshitifiable with AI dross and slop!
@Tutanota @iscarlosmolero @alexadeswift Your reply in this thread is 100% better then the silence from @protonprivacy I am sure there is a path forward for all smost will not get 100% of what they want. But the common thread seems to be 100% on security where possible and be a human. Don't enshitify. Don't fall to AI FOMO do what's right for the long run. Good luck. I am watching with an open mind to see how this plays out. To all the others here. Ownt he domain seems number 1. I know this weekend I will be setting up the family slop domain lol.
@Tutanota What's required of you? Pretty simple: no AI at all by core developers, contributors, or anyone else. Ever.
@amoroso @Tutanota @iscarlosmolero @alexadeswift The people who are willing to pay for email instead of just using Gmail value security and reliability. Using AI throws away both of those things. The people who are unbothered by AI use were never going to pay for your services. 🤦♂️
EDITED TO ADD: I've been a paying Proton user for years and Tuta WAS on my list to switch to if necessary. If Yen is still in charge when my account's up for renewal, Proton won't get another cent from me.
@sharewarewolf Tuta was also at the top of my list to switch to from Gmail. This is the kind of company I'm looking to do business with:
@JessTheUnstill@infosec.exchange
More "boring" service providers who are content with a modest profit margin and slow organic growth, please. I don't even care if the UI looks "dated" and new features take a long time to be built. Traditional boring bare metal, only add new customers when you have capacity to support it, whatever.
A company of 50+ year old tech veterans who have been laid off and left behind from age discrimination just looking to keep the bills paid until retirement.
Run it like a co-op, like a little credit union that isn't looking to expand quickly, just serve their little niche of the community.
This is why we are having as much as a conversation with Tuta as is practicable!
To be fair, they have confirmed so far that greater than 99% of their code is human written, and my suspicion is that they cannot say definitively that none of it is without putting a full stop on writing new code and performing a full audit, which would be expensive and time consuming.
@alexadeswift I credit Tuta with listening to and interacting with users, I had some good exchanges in the past.
The problem is not so much that 1% of AI code, the problem is the shift in company culture and values it's a symptom of.
Exactly, ethics is a BIG part of why I am with Tuta, as well as my universally negative reactions to any interaction with AI.
@alexadeswift @taoish Murena is the os that powers fairphone, no?
I’m waiting on their move regarding LLMs.
If they fuck up I swear I go back to a clamp phone, a real old school one with just messages and calls. Ok getting REALLY tired.
I haven't heard anything from Murena, e foundation so far, although I have recently switched to iodéOS
@alexadeswift @iscarlosmolero @Tutanota @clacksee @protonprivacy the wording of the recent post of there's does not suggest they'll go "full sloptastic". People are conflating vibe coding crap and thoughtful use of LLMs as a tool.
I have been directly discriminated against by and also harmed by so-called AI. I do not want to have any contact with it AT ALL for this reason.
@alexadeswift @iscarlosmolero @Tutanota @clacksee @protonprivacy it doesn't sound like they'd be adding LLM-based features to their products but are considering using it in the engineering process to do things like helping with repetitive tasks, like an expanded auto complete. In this case it doesn't like it should have any effect on end users, unless I'm misunderstanding something which is entirely possible
It most definitely can have a deleterious effect on end users, as AI is notorious for discrimination against various minority groups, myself included.
And using AI/LLMs to speed up development has been contradicted by early research showing that it increases workload.
Therefore I do not want ANY contact with this technology in any respect, and if so I will ditch all my personal IT in order to stay away from it.