Post by @_elena@mastodon.social
Does anyone have any insights / scoops about the upcoming #EUKidsAct, set to be introduced this Thursday to "age gate" access to social media platforms across the EU? (Thus forcing every citizen to upload their government ID to establish their age)
I'm super worried about the impact on the #OpenSocialWeb and the Fediverse in particular.
🔗 : https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-to-propose-new-legislation-on-minors-protection-on-thursday/
I wish they would share a clear description of the platforms affected by this legislation.
@_elena urgh... Is there any way to do #ageverification privately and securely? It doesn't look like it.
Didn't the EU's solution get hacked on day one?
Valve (Steam) achieved age verification in the UK by requiring a credit card. Because to have a credit card you have to be a certain age
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/292B-3DA3-CFC8-97F6
this doesn't completely answer your question, but it collapses the need for another privacy disclosure. the credit card company knew before, it still knows, but no one else does
but of course, now your credit card is exposed for another potential data breach
obviously best case scenario: no need for age verification
but if it comes to pass, i think this is the best "how?"
because it results in the easiest, least intrusive form of disclosure
as a bonus, fediverse instances are always in need of funds, and with a cc on file, some friction is removed for donations
big problem:
the data breach potential. a nasty possibility with small hobbyist servers
perhaps there could be third party cc verification service for instances
@benroyce @patrickleavy I had never thought of things this way, so thank you Ben for assuaging some of my fears.
@studybunny reports that in Australia the strict age verification laws didn't apply to the Fediverse, but only Big Tech. Let's hope things stay this way here, too
@_elena@mastodon.social @benroyce @patrickleavy
Here in The Netherlands we have a means to share attributes anonymously. This used to be the IRMA app, but has been renamed to @yivi_privacybydesign@mastodon.nl and works like a charm. I am sure people involved in that project can give details if that can
be rolled out EU wide.
It is a shame too few people use it
@fd0 @yivi_privacybydesign unrelated but I just let out a little scream when I read the instance name! I'm a BIG fan of Little Fedi 😊
anyway, yes, I agree with you that it would be fantastic is something like this could be implemented in place of more privacy-eroding ways
@_elena@mastodon.social @yivi_privacybydesign@mastodon.nl
This solution has been in place for many years and all one's attributes, like e-mail address, age, stay on the phone.
@fd0 @_elena@mastodon.social @yivi_privacybydesign@mastodon.nl
This is brilliant !!!
I think not many people use it because they have not heard about it.
We need to give them more exposure.
I'll start with rigging an automatic post every month on some of my accounts. Hopefully this will help.
I haven't downloaded the app yet, but I hope it works outside the NL as well.
Edit 😰😰
download the free Yivi app, choose a PIN, enter your email, and collect your (Dutch citizen) data via DigiD.
So much for people outside of NL
@francois
The concept is cool, and it works for my tiny country, i know.
Perhaps the Privacy by Design Foundations @yivi_privacybydesign@mastodon.nl / @bjacobs@social.edu.nl could comment on the status of any international use!
@fd0 @yivi_privacybydesign@mastodon.nl @bjacobs@social.edu.nl @_elena@mastodon.social
well it seem to rely on the info stored about Dutch citizen in a place called DigID, so unless other countries have something similar, it won't work.
I know my governement (like most) has plenty of data about me, but that is not available to 3rd parties.
The only thing we have ( I guess it's a start) is a single authentication system which is valid for everything, and by everything, I mean everything - not only governement, but banks, etc.
But it only says I'm me.
It is nice, but at the same time it is a single point of failure, which is never good.
That said, there is a project of EU-wide digital ID - presumably this will be stored by each governement so such a database will probably be available.
I think the Privacy by Design Foundations @yivi_privacybydesign@mastodon.nl / @bjacobs@social.edu.nl would be well inspired to start lobbying now, knowing how slowly the wheels of EU usually move 😀
@fd0 @_elena @yivi_privacybydesign Looks like the EU rather rolls their own crap that got broken the moment they released it on github (also haven't heard of any news on that wallet for months now - guess feeding people's PII into ~~third party services~~ the dark web is more important than the infrastructure), than to use something preexisting and proven. I've heard of yivi a couple of times and it would be nice to expand that I guess.
The main challenge with wallet usage is: where to get reliable attributes from. This problem is even bigger for international usage.
One solution that Yivi supports is getting attributes into the app from your own passport, via the NFC connection on your phone. That works well. It has been tested for many countries --- but not all yet.
With the passport data, stored locally on your phone, you can reliably prove with your Yivi wallet who you are, or that you are older then 16, or 18. These age limit proofs happen without disclosing anything else about yourself. You can try this at:
This is European sovereign open source technology that offers privacy-friendly age verification, without any monopolies, see also:
https://yivi.app/en/digital_autonomy/
Other attributes in Yivi that can be used internationally are: email, mobile phone number, IBAN bank number. Email works well, but phone and bank may have restrictions. Do let us know if you cannot load certain attributes.
And do distribute this message in your own network and among people that decide on the technology that all of us have to use in the future. There are decent alternatives! But we have to make the choice.